Faith FAIL…SCIENCE WIN!!

15 06 2010

This morning the “King of Kings” (aka the Touchdown Jesus) statue in Monroe Ohio burned to the ground after being struck by lightning.

What…like I could possibly add anything to make that even more awesome?

Update:

I found a little more awesome.  Here’s a picture of the statue burning at 11:20 last night.

And some of the local quotes are equally awesome.

Levi Walsh, 29 said “Of all the things that could have been struck, I just think that that would be protected. … It’s something that’s not supposed to happen, Jesus burning,” … who then noted the giant Hustler Hollywood sign for the adult store across the street was untouched.

Indeed.

Double Secret Update!

Video of the burning savior right here my friend.  Don’t worry though because Big Butter Jesus will be back in three days as was written in the prophecy.  Be sure to bring pancakes.  Lots and lots of pancakes.

(You might want to mute the sound on this though.  You’ve been warned.)

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39 responses

15 06 2010
themysteryof

This was a just a statue made of foam. It was meant to try to communicate something about Jesus to us. The statue didn’t die for us, and then rise from the dead, like Jesus did. Jesus said that all power was his in heaven and earth. He just isn’t exercising it yet. He is exercising restraint because he loves us, and is “not willing that any should perish.”

15 06 2010
SuperJesus

Yeah, I think it communicated that faith won’t protect you or your made up gods nearly as well as a bit of wire and a lightning rod invented by Benjamin Franklin in 1752.

15 06 2010
The Beej

The quote really makes this thing. Jesus was too busy protecting innocent children in Africa to protect his own statue… Oh, wait…

15 06 2010
SuperJesus

Yeah, and why is it Christians would never interpret this as a bad sign? You know, along the lines of “I guess we were wrong about that whole Jesus is Lord thing…and boy it sure looks like Allah is proper pissed about it.”

16 06 2010
Tabbie

Praise cheeses!

16 06 2010
themysteryof

Since he allowed his creatures to go so far as to crucify him, I don’t see why this would be any big deal. The Bible predicts the short term triumph of Secularism, and the end of this world. He must let mankind see the results of our rebellion against God. You do know that all the things you’re saying are predicted in the Bible don’t you ?

16 06 2010
Tabbie

@ themysteryof: I know you are delusional.

The Bible says a lot of things. It says you should stone your stubborn children to death: Deuteronomy 21:18-2. Before you try to explain away that little bit by saying it is in the Old Testament and therefore no longer applicable today, remember that the Ten Commandments are in the Old Testament too.

Furthermore, if you choose to explain away God’s clear and forceful commandment to stone your disobedient stubborn children to death, who the hell do you think you are to have the authority to make such a broad and sweeping decision regarding a document which in another breath you will no doubt tell us is the divinely inspired, literal and infallible Word of God? Who gives you the right to say which parts of the Bible no longer apply in this day and age and which parts do? Everyone discerns things differently. Are you going to tell us next that that you are a direct prophet of God? Do you have some special understanding of your holy schmoly scriptures which no one else possesses?

You need some Haldol. Calm yourself down. Then go eat a nice hot shrimp dinner. Oh wait, you can’t. Shrimp is forbidden by the scriptures: Leviticus 11:9-12 and Deuteronomy 14:9-10. I’d venture to say that lobster would be out of the question as well.

So take the afternoon, eat some vegetable soup and delve into the New Testament for us why don’t you? Here’s a little conundrum to keep your tiny mind busy ad infinitum — report back to us when you have the answer: Specifically which scripture is it in the New Testament that tells us the Sabbath has been changed from Saturday to Sunday? When you come up with an answer for that one, I’ll give you another riddle to solve, Mmmkayyy??? Maybe you’ll be quick about it, especially if you still believe in keeping the Sabbath holy, eh?

16 06 2010
Tim

The Bible that incorrectly “predicts” even the past? One thing is predictable, fundies are certain to bend any information they get like a pretzel to fit into a preconceived interpretation. Everything you guys say utterly predictable – but hey, since the Bible predicts it all, can you give us a date, hmm?

16 06 2010
SuperJesus

I was only going to ask were in the Bible it foretold of Zeus striking down a sixty foot high Jesus with a bolt of lightning?

I think the Bible also explains that all of creation was made in six days about ten thousand years ago and that the earth is flat.

Now this is where you’re supposed to cite some scripture to back up whatever point you’re trying to make even though it holds no sway or authority to people capable of independent critical thought.

16 06 2010
Tabbie

I think I read it in the Book of TheMysteryOf chapter 6 verse 66:

“And in the days of fire and death upon the waters amidst the time of Black in the House of White, God shalt smite the teatgrease graven image of His only ill-begotten Son, conceived out of wedlock by force against a virgin maiden fair, and He shalt make it burn with a fire from the heavens and men shalt know His Holy Name across the flatlands of the earth, and they shall know that it is good. Selah.”

17 06 2010
themysteryof

Tabbie, In Deuteronomy 18:15 Moses foretold that “…God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you…. You must listen to him.” That is a prophecy about the coming of Jesus. He is the one with the right to say which parts of the Bible apply in this day and age. In John 8:7 Jesus said, “Let whoever is without sin among you cast the first stone…”
The sabbath is still Saturday, but we are free to meet on any day we choose. The disciples often met on the first day of the week, which is Sunday. (John 20:19)
Tim, The Bible is an accurate history. Archaeologists in the Middle East have long consulted the Bible for clues in their search for lost cities etc…
SuperJesus, The Bible doesn’t say the earth is flat. That is a myth. Isaiah 40:22 speaks of “the circle of the earth.” That could have been translated as “circuit,” or “sphere.”

17 06 2010
SuperJesus

The Bible also speaks of the foundations of the earth, the pillars of the earth, the corners of the earth, and the ends of the earth. Spherical earth or flat circular earth, none of the aforementioned descriptions make any sense if an all knowing creator was divinely inspiring such writings.

You can make apologies all day but the fact is that the Bible was written entirely by men who had no idea what the shape of the world was and so they guessed and made stuff up. If God created this universe he certainly would have known that the earth was spherical and would have mentioned it (or at least have been consistent) while inspiring His explanation of creation rather than relying on you to mistranslate the Bible to fix typos on His behalf.

18 06 2010
Tabbie

To ‘themysteryof’ —

Differences in translations and interpretations of Deuteronomy 18:15 account for Christianity’s claim that this passage foretells of the coming of Jesus Christ, Islam’s claim that it foretells of the coming of Muhammad and Judaism’s claim that it concerns the establishment of the Office of the Prophet, a position to be filled by a long line of Jewish prophets after Moses. The Israelites were warned in the previous chapter against turning to occultist sources as a means of discerning future events. Each group believes they’re the ones who’ve interpreted this passage of Deuteronomy correctly. Truth is, it doesn’t even matter. Wasting time trying to find meaning behind so-called holy scripture is nothing more than an exercise in mental masturbation.

Regarding the shape of the earth: Perhaps Isaiah should have simply stated that the earth is round instead of rambling on and on in riddles about pillars, circles, corners and wheels within wheels. The man clearly had a problem or condition which caused psychosis. The book of Revelation is much the same — a product of a deranged man’s mental distress and delusions. The really crazy part is that for millennia the Bible has been embraced as some sort of guidebook to the meaning of life and an apocalyptic prophetic vision for countless untold suckers who didn’t have the wherewithal to think for themselves.

The disciples met on Sunday. Whoopty doo. There is no directive in the Bible which clearly states that this Sunday meeting of the disciples somehow supercedes or replaces observation of the Sabbath. It’s an assumption that has been made and has become part of the Christian dogma. It’s all meaningless anyway. Be it Friday, Saturday or Sunday, the faithful waste their breath and their energy sacrificing their dignity and intelligence by bowing down to make-believe magic beings in the sky. It wastes time, and it works to keeps mankind in the dark. Our progress is inhibited by the mindless stupidity of worshipping invisible nonexistent gods.

You say Jesus is the one with the right to say which parts of the Bible apply in this day and age. My answer: Then let him say it. All I hear is a silence so profound that it reverberates off the very fibers of my being even though I spent the first few decades of my life with an open heart and an open mind. Dust was the only thing that accumulated along with a buttload of years wasted on seeking out a nonresponsive Jesus Christ. There was no personal relationship. There was no guidance from any holy spirit. There was simply nothing, no matter how much I longed for it and no matter how much I humbled myself before my god or waited expectantly in prayer. My praise and worship fell on nonexistent ears.

Any god who who wanted to have personal relationships with us would show themselves to us. Any god who really truly cared for each and every one of us would make absolutely certain that we all knew the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Any god who wanted each and every one of us to have the opportunity of receiving salvation from an eternity of damnation would make the prescribed pathway perfectly clear for all to understand. This supremely important Information would be revitalized and refreshed on a regular basis in order to keep it relevant to the current times and cultural norms of the people it was meant to reach and save. There would be zero room for error in translation or interpretation. Anything less is simply not godlike.

Prophecies and mysticism handed down through the ages do absolutely nothing to promote a full, clear and present understanding of the truth, the light and the way things really are. Why would any god create a divinely important directive and then for thousands of years leave it completely vulnerable to happenstance and loss and open to mistranslation , misinterpretation, manipulation, corruption and perversion at the hands of ego-driven, superstitious and uneducated men and women with agendas to fulfill, mouths to feed and powers to grab? No god would do such a thing. No god. Period.

Today I can see clearly that nobody knows anything despite billions who claim to know something. It’s all a bunch of hocus pocus. Jesus is as dead as dirt and has been since the Romans made a scapegoat of him and tacked him to a stick on a hill in the sun. Tragic? Yes! Supernatural? No! Just dead.

We, as a species, have foundered in the muck of superstition and ignorance for far too long. The time has come to rise up, face reality, and move forward by leaps and bounds toward a better and brighter tomorrow. Cast aside the chains of fear and subservience and embrace something new which is filled with hope and fueled by truth.

18 06 2010
Super Jesus

I love it when you accidentally brew yourself a cup of fully caffeinated tea before bedtime.

20 06 2010
themysteryof

You mention the foundations of the earth, the pillars of the earth, the corners of the earth, and the ends of the earth. All of these are figures of speech that the Bible uses, and can be apt descriptions up to a point. In some cases the “foundations of the earth” can be the mantle underlying the crust of the earth. In some cases, it is a metaphor for a moral foundation. Modern writers use these sorts of expressions all the time. It can sometimes be difficult to discern between a scientific statement and a poetic expression.

It’s actually a critical matter about who really fulfills the Old Testament prophecies, because that is how God reveals himself . You say that “any god who who wanted to have personal relationships with us would show themselves to us. Any god who really truly cared for each and every one of us would make absolutely certain that we all knew the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.” He’s doing everything that can be done to persuade as many as possible. The persuading has to take place on a human level. That’s why he told mankind ahead of time that he would become a man and die on a cross.

Jesus has had “a say” as to which parts of the Bible apply in this day and age. It’s called the New Testament. Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life…” That’s what the angel that became Satan didn’t believe. That’s what Adam and Eve didn’t believe there at the Tree of Knowledge. That’s what the world doesn’t believe today. What we are seeing here in this world is what happens when people don’t believe the truth, and trust instead in their own ideas. This is a world full of all kinds of ideas, and idols.

God must allow mankind to reach the point where we would destroy ourselves by accepting the Antichrist. Mankind would never believe God otherwise, even if they were face to face.

21 06 2010
Tabbie

First of all, mankind was supposedly created in God’s image. God should therefore already be human enough to communicate with us on a human level. The excuse that God must first be incarnated into human form before he can talk to us on a human level is weak at best.

God is supposedly omnipotent. Omnipotence would allow for God’s instantaneous transformation into a human form for the purpose of walking upon the earth at will. There’s no need for the impregnation of yet another virgin and waiting 33 years and 9 months for God to open up his yapper and quack. I’ve also no doubt whatsoever that God in his supernatural wisdom, omnipresence, omniscience and omnipotence would have some sort of trick up his sleeve he could use to imprint upon each of us that the being we were seeing and hearing was in fact The One True Almighty God.

You say, “He’s doing everything that can be done to persuade as many as possible.”

“Everything” is in fact NOT being done. Right now God is doing absolutely nothing — except playing hide and seek. We’re all doing the seeking while God stays hidden, silent and invisible. It’s been this way, furthermore, for at least two frackin’ thousand years! A lot of us have given up! Surely “everything that can be done” would include daily spots on CNN, weekly visits with Obama and other world dignitaries, pitstops around the globe to heal the sick and the wounded, feed the hungry, house the homeless, clean up a really big oil spill and just plain spread around a little bit of that good ol’ Christian love which everybody talks about but nobody actually practices when it comes right down to brass tacks.

It also stands to reason that God would give enough of a crap to visit the Vatican and set them straight on a few points, visit the Scientologists and explain to them in no uncertain terms that what they believe is a total crock of BS and pay regular visits to all the other major religions as needed to be sure they knew that they were worshipping false gods. No doubt he’d want to correct doctrinal errors within the various Protestant denominations as well, since it’s unreasonable to think that Catholics are the only Christians who have made mistakes.
(A lot of this confusion and mystery could have been avoided in the first place if God had only guided his son and the Bible’s divinely inspired writers to steer clear of using those pesky little figures of speech, metaphors, parables and poetic expressions. Such products of creative license are embellished with new meaning each and every passing week as new sermons are uttered around the world by preachers who love to talk in circles. Don’t you think an omniscient God should have known that would happen? I think we can all agree, in any case, that straightforward facts are the best approach to use when writing instruction manuals for souls seeking eternal life vs. eternal damnation.)

Hmmm…what else could be done? The word “everything” sure encompasses a lot of stuff! Silence and invisibility are very poor excuses for a PR campaign of the utmost important kind. Matthew 25:14-30 tells the parable of an utterly useless servant who hid his master’s talents in the ground rather than spread them around to increase his master’s wealth. The master was angry, calling the servant wicked and slothful as he cast him into outer darkness. Surely no master should expect more of his servants than what he himself is willing to do!

I think we’d all be duly impressed if God would actually take some time out of his oh-so-busy day in the universe to come down here to earth IN PERSON and perform even a few of the tasks I have listed above. Don’t tell me God doesn’t have the time to do these things or that he has commissioned his faithful to do these tasks for him. If God really cares enough, if he actually cares who diddles whom, if he cares about who’s naughty and who’s nice, if he cares whether or not little Dick or tiny Jane bow their heads and pray to him every morning, noon and night, and if he cares what each and every one of us is doing and thinking at any given moment, then he can damn well make certain we all get it straight from his holy lips!

That would certainly pursuade a whole heck of a lot of people that he is the one true God and that they need to follow his way or hit the highway to hell. Most people know a smart choice when they see it. Just having the freedom to choose is really quite considerate of God when you think about it. I mean, who wouldn’t want to spend all eternity groveling at the feet of a superior being vs. burning forever in a hot unholy hell? It’s not like there won’t be pearly gates to pass through on our way to the eternal altar of praise. Some people like it hot, though, and there’s no accounting for taste.

Until God comes down here and takes care of a little business in person, he might as well not even exist. Clearly the people he’s commissioned to spread his word are, for the most part, untrustworthy and unreliable, and none of them can even get their stories to match! I’d say it’s a weak, pathetic little system plagued by mankind’s special knack for mucking things up with too many layers of bureaucracy. I don’t think it’s one whit unreasonable to say that the current system in place for spreading the Gospel of Christ is wayyyyy short of what God could and would design and implement if God were really God and if he actually existed anywhere outside the self-deluded minds of people who are too fearful to face their own mortality with dignity, courage and a smattering of grace.

21 06 2010
themysteryof

A lot of the things you suggest that God should do are actually on his agenda for his “Millennial Reign.” There are several reasons why he is using the weak person to person method now. There is an old saying that “A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still.” When Jesus returns and rules on this earth for 1000 years, many people of that time will not be happy about it. To change that, he has to change our hearts. Revelation 20:1-8 predicts a final rebellion against God at the end of that period.

When he did so many miracles during his life on earth, his enemies still found many ways to accuse him. Another thing that tends to happen is that when things let up, we drift right back to our old ways.

There are Biblical records hinting at God’s “transformation into a human form for the purpose of walking upon the earth at will.” It is only his dying on the cross that can really change our hearts toward him though. It is mankind that is actually trying to hide from God (like Adam did) not the other way around. As long as we don’t see God, we can have the illusion that we are free to do anything we want. God is not satisfied with good behavior that exists only when we know we’re being watched. God wants a real relationship, not something superficial that the actual sight of hell would cause.

“Clearly the people he’s commissioned to spread his word are, for the most part, untrustworthy and unreliable, and none of them can even get their stories to match! I’d say it’s a weak, pathetic little system plagued by mankind’s special knack for mucking things up with too many layers of bureaucracy.” You said it right here, but God has to do the best he can with what he’s got. It’s why we will ultimately fail and God will have to intervene personally. We are human. There are none of us that The Lord didn’t have to die for.

21 06 2010
SuperJesus

“but God has to do the best he can with what he’s got”

We are talking about an all-powerful, all-knowing, created-the-entire-universe God here, right? The AM Radio uses technology we figured out over 100 years ago, can’t He just broadcast messages to us directly over the radio? Rush Limbaugh has a daily radio program, are you suggesting Rush Limbaugh is more powerful than God? What about that temptress Rachel Ray and her numerous shows on the Food Network?

And if He isn’t powerful enough to produce his own talk show or cable program then is He really worth worshiping?

All jokes aside, I think you’re working way too hard. The bigger point you seem to be missing is that if your “holy” book isn’t clear, is full of discrepancies, is full of factually incorrect material claims, and frequently teaches immoral behavior, then it is not a book worth following literally or metaphorically. If you take any such book as literal truth then you’re a monumental fool, and if you take it figuratively or metaphorically then you’re an even bigger fool who just likes to make stuff up as you go along.

Quoting or explaining anything based on any said “holy” book merits no more authority in argument than quoting fairy tales by the Brothers Grimm. They’re all just made up fairy tales.

21 06 2010
Tabbie

Exactly! Well said! Talking in circles to explain how this means that and that foretells this is how all these religions work. Anything can be made to appear logical if worked at hard enough. There will always be a comeback with increasingly convoluted explanations for this and for that. Each sect, of course, interprets things differently, often using the same spot of text to support totally different belief systems, and bingo — there you have FLDS, and bingo — there you have A/G, and bingo — there you have Islam, and bingo — there you have Judaism, ad infinitum. The entire premise of faith-based religion is so full of holes it makes swiss cheese look like bedrock.

21 06 2010
Barbara

I must have missed the Book of themysteryof…..
Damn disappointing that I came in so late on this one. 😀

21 06 2010
Ringleb

This is good post. I think still you should add more video and pictures because it helps understanding 🙂

22 06 2010
themysteryof

“There will always be a comeback with increasingly convoluted explanations for this and for that.” People on all sides can always come up with a comeback. That is true also of the angels that rebelled against God. The argument, you see, doesn’t just take place in this world but also in the unseen. We are overlooking something about our very nature when we assume that we would just fall right in line with everything God desired if he proved his existence. That wasn’t true of Satan and it isn’t true of us.

The Bible isn’t full of discrepancies, or factually incorrect material claims. I was taught that way as well as you have been. I once believed that way, but those things practically all dissolve when we view them in the proper context. I will “give God the benefit of a doubt” concerning the few things left that don’t seem to fit together in my eyes. The meanings that sometimes “jump out at us” aren’t always correct. The Bible does not teach immoral behavior. It does point out the immoral behavior of those who believed in God as well as those who believed in something else. Sometimes those answer’s are found in another part of the Bible.

We all interpret things differently, often using the same facts and evidence to support totally different belief systems. That is true of belief in evolution as well as belief in God. We are all affected by the Tree of Knowledge. In taking of the Tree of Knowledge, mankind became the interpreters of all knowledge, and its moral implications. Rather than trusting God, we have come to trust in ourselves. That is why it has become so important to trust Jesus. He died for us to cut through all the red tape of knowledge. He knows that our quest for knowledge isn’t going to get us to Heaven.

22 06 2010
SuperJesus

To deny the discrepancies, errors and immoral teachings of the Bible is to admit you read it very selectively indeed or haven’t read it at all. That you had to then immediately couch your apologist position by citing the need to read with the proper context in mind and by giving “God the benefit of doubt” seems to only prove my point. Clearly, no truly infallible and divinely inspired document would require such allowances.

To then insist that God’s loving message of redemption from His (less than loving) eternal damnation is best conveyed by not providing any legitimate proof of His actual existence first…is quite irrational.

And you should know that citing the origins of Satan only adds to the silliness of the argument.

I understand you’re very invested in your faith but you should allow yourself a moment to think more critically about the arguments you’ve been taught to make in defending it. I think you’ll find those arguments sorely lacking sense.

22 06 2010
Tabbie

I yawn at your arguments, themysteryof.

One little thing I’d like to correct, however, is this statement which you made: “The Bible isn’t full of discrepancies, or factually incorrect material claims. I was taught that way as well as you have been.”

I was not taught that way. I was raised by a Christian fundamentalist minister, one who has now been ordained by his church for over 50 years. I went to church every time the doors opened. I had the “Gospel of Christ” shoved at me from every angle for decades. I sang the hymns and songs of worship. I prayed and believed, trusted and obeyed.

I learned the hard way that there is no God. I learned it on my own from experience and from observation. Zero prayers were heard. Zero prayers were answered. Zero “swaying of my heart” took place. Neither God nor “His Holy Spirit” made himself known to me. God never “spoke to my heart” or mind. There was nothing that ever happened right from the very beginning to the very end of my lifetime of submission to God. Oh how I tried! I waited in prayer. My heart was tender and open. Nothing ever happened. I sought God. No revelation came to me. No subtle knowing of God’s love filled my being. I confessed. I repented. I felt nothing. Zip. Zilch. Dead air. No change came over me. I found no peace. I found no joy. I found no contentment. I found no comfort. Life happened. God didn’t.

I was surrounded by a biological family filled with devoted Christians and by a church family also devoted to living their lives according to the tenets of their faith. As the years went by, it became quite evident, nevertheless, that all those around me who were so fervent in their faith were simply caught up in self-induced states of emotionalism. It was all very subjective, yet each person believed that he or she was somehow touched by God. The most ridiculous things were called miracles or signs from God, yet never did I witness anything even remotely close to miraculous, and the purported signs from God were simply random coincidences or feelings people had and nothing more. Some of the things I was taught from the Bible were blatantly untrue. It was as plain as the nose on my face, yet I was expected to believe in their veracity. I felt very alone.

I eventually opened my eyes and started to thinkfor myself many years ago after having wasted easily half of my life or more waiting on God. It’s amazing the things a person can learn once they let go of preconceived notions, live life for what it really is and take a good hard look at the science of the universe and learn what there is to learn! The world is an amazing place, and I am happy to be in it.

I feel more alive now than ever before, and I have found the courage within myself to move forward with my life in a positive and healthy way. I enjoy every waking moment of my life, be it a moment of joy or one filled with pain. I know my time on earth is limited, yet I do not cringe in fear of my end. Naturally I want more time, but this is they way we are born. We all have the inborn urge to survive. I don’t allow greed to control my drive for life, and I don’t obsess about my mortality. It is what it is, and it is enough.

My only regret is that I wasted so much of my time crippled by religious superstition and chasing divine meaning behind rainbows, when in reality the rainbows of our world are simply refractions of light and most beautiful to behold.

20 01 2012
brandon

awesome

22 06 2010
Barbara

You are born Christian, you talk Jesus and New Testament, Jewish you talk the Torah, Muslim and it is the Koran. Each religion cancels the others salvation out. Yet there is only one god. Among the 1000’s that is. And all the while each religious belief professes to be able to interpret their holy text to prove to themselves that some invisible man in the sky exists, while leaving out volumes of text that made even less sense then the parts published, and yet you still insist it is the inerrant word of god and that it is your god who is real. Um, yes….

22 06 2010
Barbara

Let me correct myself. We are all born atheist, unfortunately some of us are born into a religious home. 😉

24 06 2010
themysteryof

“To deny the discrepancies, errors and immoral teachings of the Bible is to admit you read it very selectively indeed or haven’t read it at all.” I first read the Bible because I was “a reader,” and the Bible has probably been banned more than any other book; I was curious about it. I read it very critically at first, but after much investigation, I came to believe it. I give “God the benefit of doubt,” in the sense that if he says one thing but someone else says another, I’m going to trust him, and not someone else. I was truly a born atheist, but now I am born again, to use a much overused expression.

I think very often we are given the wrong ideas, and expectations in church, and therefore we don’t recognize God’s presence. In my blog, I’m trying to relate how we can recognize the true God, and his presence. That’s my purpose. That idea is behind the lyrics of my song, “His Visage,” that I posted recently. Tabby has apparently had a great deal of experience with “church,” but not with Jesus himself. I always pray about things like that, because I know that it is the Lord’s greatest desire to reveal himself to us.

24 06 2010
SuperJesus

Churches are full of apologists and I fully encourage any good Christian to read the Bible carefully to see what God is really saying. For example, despite the 6th commandment of “Thou shall not kill”, God himself kills a total of 371,186 people directly and orders another 1,862,265 people murdered throughout His holy text. Specific examples can be found in (1 Chronicles 21), (Deuteronomy 3), (Joshua 6), (Judges 21), and (2 Kings 10:18-27)

In fact the God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9).

We are all born atheists, it is only through the religious indoctrination of our parents or others later in life that we become one religion or another. It just so happens that some of us have the good fortune to escape such cults.

And if, as you say, the Lord’s greatest desire is to reveal himself to us then He is a woefully pathetic God indeed having failed so miserably given that Christianity (in the most generic sense) only accounts for 33% of the world population. Again, He needs to look into getting His own talk radio program or cable program. If a nitwit like Ernest Angley can do it, God Almighty should be able to pull it off.

25 06 2010
Tabbie

@ themysteryof:

My father is a “born again” man and also a minister, ordained in the Assembies of God. Try as I did for most of my life to find salvation, to be born again, to have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, I never found Jesus. All I ever found was NOTHING.

I did everything as it was explained to me. I repented of my sin. I kept an open heart and an open mind. I lived a pure life. I kept myself separate from the world. I humbled myself before God. I immersed myself in everything about Jesus the Son of God, God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit. I lived this way morning, noon and night and day after day for decades! I poured my heart out to God. I sang songs of praise, devotion, and worship. I even attended Bible College. I studied the Bible from cover to cover. I wasted half of my life in prayer and devotion. It was all FOR NOTHING. I called. God never answered.

I finally gave up and started to use my innate intelligence to figure out why I was so alone. I went out and got myself a real education. I started asking questions, and I started finding real answers to my real questions. I finally figured out what a damned fool I had been for all those years.

My parents aren’t of that modern day flashy trashy ilk so commonly seen in many of the A/G churches these days. My parents are sincere. They are devoted. They are faithful. They are sober. They are conservative. They are humble. They love Jesus. They didn’t get rich off of the church membership.

I love my parents to pieces, but they are sadly mistaken. They have lived their entire lives in service and devotion to their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and when they die, they will be nothing more than food for worms and daisies. They won’t have eternal life. There won’t be the smallest spark of life remaining for either of them. They will be dead and finished, gone from all existence for all eternity.

My parents have wasted their entire lives on a man-made fictitious tale, singing hymns of adoration, praise and devotion, regularly studying the scriptures to learn and reaffirm the tenets of their faith, and waiting on God in stillness and prayer with earnest expectation. They’ve spent decades preaching, teaching and ministering to others, yet they will have done all of these things in vain, for theirs is an imaginary nonexistent god with nothing to give them in return for their service and love. Their sincerity is admirable, but how tragic it is that they’ve wasted their lives, on something which isn’t even real.

I have read NOTHING on your blog about “recognizing the true God and his presence” which I haven’t already heard a thousand times or more, themysteryof, and I’ve heard that old “church” vs “Jesus himself” argument so many times already that I could puke! You think they don’t preach salvation, spirituality and holiness in the church in which I was raised? You think they don’t talk about having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ? Do you honestly believe they don’t teach about “how the Holy Spirit works to make God known unto us” ? Do you honestly believe my parents still to this very day don’t do everything humanly possible to show me the way of salvation through Christ Jesus their Lord? What rock do you live under, themysteryof?

I’m telling you right now because I know it to be true: Christianity is not real. When you die, you will be dead. You will not be aware. You will cease to exist. End of story. There’s no mystery about it except why you would continue to live your life devoted to something so utterly false

28 06 2010
Andrew

From Barbara:”We are all born atheist, unfortunately some of us are born into a religious home.”

I just watched a vid from Andy Thompson a while ago and in it he suggested that we are born with some very curious ‘pre-installed software’ (mind you, he is trying to reverse-engineer religion and so his work just might lead to some real progress in ‘beliefs’) [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iMmvu9eMrg]

As to the original post – the Touchdown Jesus was seriously made out of some kind of foam? I’m pretty sure Engineering Jesus taught us to keep faith in concrete and steel and wood. Do not build your faith on a foundation of foam, for it has been proven to be quick to ignite, and great will be its fall.

5 07 2010
themysteryof

Sometimes the answers in this world are incomplete and therefore unsatisfactory. The Devil works tirelessly to cultivate situations where there are no good answers. This is all related to the fall of mankind at the Tree of Knowledge. In every branch of knowledge we have to deal with incomplete data. If we knew everything, wouldn’t that mean that we were God. Since we don’t know everything, we end up believing in something, whether it’s evolution or whatever. We need to keep some of these things in mind when we try to answer some of the many charges that are made against God.

I believe that since Jesus is God in person, if we want to understand the Old Testament, we must study Jesus. We need to see what he and the New Testament writers have to say about it. SuperJesus wrote about God allowing slavery, child abuse, and killing etc., but none of these things would exist if not for the Tree of Knowledge. These things still exist today, why doesn’t mankind stop these things? God can stop them, and will some day, but to do so would mean stopping the clock. Are you ready for that? Most people are not. That is why Jesus, when speaking of things like this, said that such things were unavoidable.

The specific Bible passages SuperJesus mentioned deserve a thorough answer, but that would require books to be written. I can only provide partial answers. They are not satisfactory to me, and I know they won’t be to you, but I trust Jesus. 1st. Chronicles 21 is an account of King David taking a census of men that could be called as soldiers. God was against such a census. One reason is that it’s so much like the thing that the Antichrist will do to enslave the world. King David lost many of those “soldiers” as a result. Numbers 21:21-24, tells how the kings mentioned in Deuteronomy 3,( Sihon and Og), attacked Israel first. That doesn’t explain the tactics Israel used against them, but civilians are always caught in the middle, one way or another.

Joshua 6, is the account of the conquest of Jericho by Israel. The only people spared were the family of the prostitute Rahab who hid the Israeli spies. In Joshua 2:9-14, when Rahab is talking with the spies, she mentions Sihon and Og. Israel is operating on their own, without God, in Judges 21. Judges 21:25, explains the earlier parts of the chapter. These people were doing what was right in their own eyes, not what was actually right in God’s eyes.

This is getting too long. Permit me to mention two more things. The woman that you think was sold as a sex slave was at least allowed a way out in Exodus 21:8. All she had to do was “not please her master. ” The law required him to “let her be redeemed.” I think many such things in the Bible are misinterpreted because of lack of knowledge about the customs of ancient people, and language problems. If Jephthah, in Judges 11:29- 40, did actually sacrifice his daughter, then he broke a direct command from God. (Deuteronomy 18:10)

5 07 2010
Super Jesus

Don’t forget the bashing of babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9).

For what it’s worth there is a literal tonnage of corroborating evidence supporting evolution, and literally none for God. Hence, unlike with God, nobody “believes” in evolution, we understand it.

You see, scientific theories not only help us understand what has happened in the past but they also give us context to predict future findings. Scientists generally don’t have to explain away logical inconsistencies and obviously ridiculous stories with things like the devil or fictitious trees of knowledge. It’s just not necessary.

At the end of the day science advances an encourages the acquisition of knowledge, whereas religion retards it.

5 07 2010
Barbara

@themysteryof
The woman that you think was sold as a sex slave was at least allowed a way out in Exodus 21:8. All she had to do was “not please her master. ” The law required him to “let her be redeemed.”

That is some pretty twisted logic, even after reading all you have written here. You are a prime example of the dangers of trying to apply logic to the illogical and yet you don’t see it.

5 07 2010
Tabbie

@themysteryof

No intelligent person will base their life around something so ultimately significant as the concept of God in light of such overwhelming lack of any real verifiable evidence whatsoever. It’s all a game of interpretation based on a bunch of crazy uncorroborated old stories written by multiple authors over a vast period of time. Some of the authors suffered with mental illnesses. Some were persecuted and lived and wrote in hiding or under duresss. I daresay all of them were highly superstitious, and most certainly all of them were undereducated by today’s standards.

These diverse stories were subjected to multiple edits and translations over the centuries, cobbled together by powerful agenda-driven councils of oft-corrupt and influential individuals. Authors and their stories were included or stripped away at the whim and will of each council. The Bible changed significantly over time. It is old, and it is interesting at best. It is, however, completely unreliable as a source of truth or information about God.

You have to work wayyyyy too hard at explaining the meaning of this passage of scripture as it relates to that passage of scripture so it will support the concept of some doctrine based on an incident described in the New Testament as predicted by one of the authors of the Old Testament but contradicted by the next which is then explained away by a supposed reference forward again to some other chapter and verse found in the New Testament which says this and this and this which then relates to this other book over here and that chapter and verse over there…and so it goes back and forth and on and on and on ad nauseum. It’s worse than trying to put together an overpriced thousand-piece shelving system sold by Walmart, manufactured in China and packed in India where they also place correction stickers on the assembly instruction sheets which are printed in Korea.

No god would ever work that way. It’s absurd! It’s ungodlike. It takes more than simple faith to believe what you believe. It takes some unknown measure of gullibility and a big unhealthy dose of willing suspension of rational thought processes as well. Fear of death probably plays a significant role somewhere in that equation too.

It always comes down to talking in circles. Anyone can make the Bible mean anything. Inconsistencies abound within the book. Contradictions are always being explained away by the faithful using some convoluted bit of logic, and things we don’t understand are simply written off as mysteries yet to be revealed at some unspecified point in the future. How very convenient it must be to manufacture your faith as you go along.

The truth of the matter is that you are deluding yourself, and really you should stop trying to delude others as well. I know it can get quite lonely at times being a believer even though your numbers abound. The resounding echoes of emptiness in your psyche would best be addressed using sound principles of thought and logic rather than proselytization. A psychologist might be able to help if you find yourself having difficulty putting together a string of truly rational thoughts. I also highly recommend a video by Julia Sweeney called Letting Go of God. It’s interesting, humorous and comforting for those who are brave enough to find the truth.

5 07 2010
themysteryof

Barbara,

I’m not defending the practice of selling your daughter for any reason, and I don’t think God was either. I think this is another of those situations where the Lord would say,”This is not the way it was meant to be in the beginning.” This was a time when parents arranged the marriages of their children for money, or some form of security. That was the practice of virtually all societies of that era. These practices were started by man, not by God. God, then as now, only intervened to a minor degree, in these “family” matters. He did interfere to a greater degree when he visited this world as a man. That’s one of the reasons that certain people began to want him dead.

I sometimes wonder how the Lord can let this world go on. At the same time, I understand that it won’t be an easy thing to bring this world to a halt. I think God has to allow man to take the world to the very brink of destruction. Man would never believe that we would destroy everything unless God let us go there. Before we can see God as he is, we must see ourselves as we are.

Super Jesus,

Hosea 13:16 is a prophecy about something to happen in Samaria, not about something God wanted to happen. Psalm 137:9 was written by someone who had been taken captive by the Babylonians, and who wanted to see Babylon suffer for their atrocities. It was not Israel, but the Medes and the Persians who later overthrew Babylon. The Bible teaches us to refrain from any rejoicing at the downfall of our enemies. Suffering is always a cause for mourning, especially the suffering of children who haven’t done anything to anyone.

I have to let you alone for awhile. I have some other things I need to focus on.

6 07 2010
Tabbie

LOL. I love how I’ve become persona non grata, not meriting a response.

“I have some other things I need to focus on.”

Hopefully it’s not Focus on the Family. They do far more harm than good!

Anyway, themysteryof, I do wish you well and hope you will stop deluding yourself. You seem to be intelligent. I urge you to allow your intellect the chance to operate freely without the constraints of circular and wishful thinking.

Peace to you from the despised interjectory bulldog, Tabbie.

6 07 2010
Super Jesus

A prophecy is not a threat but a prediction of what is to come. The fact is God is either promising or threatening to bash infants against rocks AND ripping open any pregnant women all because the people of Samaria were guilty of rebelling against God.

You seem nice enough but again you are left to defend the indefensible and immoral. At what point do you not wake up and wonder how such a horribly flawed book could possibly be the inspired work of a perfect and loving God?

6 07 2010
themysteryof

Tabbie,
I came back to copy something for future reference. It certainly isn’t that I didn’t find anything in your comment that didn’t merit response, but only that I’m so rushed. I do believe there’s plenty of evidence that the Bible has not changed significantly over time. I think the Septuagint translation of the Old Testament, and the Dead Sea Scrolls are the greatest evidences of that. I also wish you well. Please don’t be angry if I say, God bless you.

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